ignored abuse.

Help with EFnet related issues

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sadistic
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:01 am
Location: ubiquitous

ignored abuse.

Postby sadistic » Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:41 am

Logs are worthless because people are lame enough to change them.
I know.
Still I feel compelled to ask for help. Not to gain a channel back, not to get rid of another annoying user. Just so an oper will stop k-lining and killing all the former ops of a channel I used to run.

The break down:

I had been in #goth for at least 5 years.
Androsyn was made an op maybe a year or so back.
His wife later started offending people within the channel. Eventually I told her that she was wasting her breath. Androsyn kickbanned me (sadistic) and brought in his bots. He was later deoped by the rest of the #goth ops. At this point he k-lined and killed every client that was oped. Then chanfix oped him and another channel op. He deoped this chanop and oped his bots.

His irc admin claimed this was not abuse, as he was a channel op. I don't care about the channel. If we remember, channels were numbers back in the begining of irc, and not names. I don't much value the name, I value the users.
I tried to work things out with the server admin to see if I could get the channel back for the regulars/ops. This failed and as it stands almost every former op is banned. This doesn't bother me.

What bothers me is that I set up a new channel, and all the former ops joined and we resumed our conversations. Within a few weeks I noticed unknown host flybys. I thought nothing of it untill the users of the channel started catching an excessive amount of k-lines whenever a flyby would take place. I msged androsyn and told him to let it go and stop with the k-lines. Within a minute I got my responce. Another k-line. Now I'm not quite sure how androsyn can k-line me on irc.blessed.net and other servers when he's an oper on irc.avalonworks.ca. I spoke with the blessed opers and they thought it was rather odd as well. None of them had k-lined me.

Also the channel we started is now juped on irc.avalonworks.ca
<Djinna> if you use avalonworks.ca (androsyn's server) and join
#soultrader you get k-lined and banned
<Djinna> -irc.avalonworks.ca- *** Banned Temporary K-line 1440 min. -
Trying to join juped channel #soultrader (2004/12/20 23.21)

This channel is not used for any illegal activities. Nor is it used to harm the network. I simply want to use irc for that it's meant to be used for, chat.

Androsyn has said various things about me (sadistic); he has said I set up a botnet to msg flood him. I think I'd take my own life before I did somonething so pointless and stupid. But I guess you never know, people do rather stupid things.

Also I set the channel +k "randompasswd". The flybys and k-lined continued through this. It's abuse to join a +k channel when you don't have the passwd as well. As it rests the channel is now +i. I haven't met an ircop that's broke +i channels yet. This all seems rather childish to me. If I'm in the wrong and I'm harming the network I would like to know, so I can correct my behavior. But if for some possible reason this just might be able to be abuse.... I would like some help. Thank you for your time.

Unchanged logs etc are avalible upon request, but yea like you said in your readme, they could have possibly been change when I wasn't looking.
Have a good day.
Long live efnet.
--------
sadistic
NiamhEfNet
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA

Postby NiamhEfNet » Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:27 pm

I'm sure between the lot of us, we all have the same log. This is O-Line abuse plain and simple. If he's not abusing it b/c he has been an op in #goth then we should get our ops back b/c we were ops in #goth and before him. It seems like a vicious circle. He needs to stay out of #soultrader as there is no reason for him to be there. All #soultrader is is #goth w/o Andro, his o-line, his (unnecessarily) multiple bots (friends?) and his pettiness. He's just as bad as Jarvis was. The only difference is that Jarvis was bored and fucking with people, general bully and Andro's reasons seem to be petty and sad. I only say this b/c the only reason he was willing to give me for the take over was that Sadistic badmouthed his wife. Very 5th grade (then again that is what the internet boils down to so I guess I have no opinion on that).

B-o-o H-o-o. Whatever.

~~Niamh
AirMonk
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: Atlanta GA

Postby AirMonk » Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:19 pm

I think what really got me the most concerned about this whole issue wasn’t that an IRCop went petty and took over a channel that I’ve helped run for over a decade, it was the response I got from the irc.avalonworks.ca admin when I contacted him about the issue. While he was very pleasant in his emails with me…it was clear that he had no regard for Efnet users and placed all of his importance on the IRCops themselves.

From his last email to me in reply to my report of abuse:

“To be honest i dont have any answers to your questions because in theory
"its not any of my business" what Androsyn does with the channel from now on
out. Aslong as Androsyn did not abuse any of his ircop privs on this its all
legit in efnet eyes even tho its unfair for you.

As i said, i know androsyn to be reasonable so i hope you guys can work
something out in one way or another.”

While I fully understand that IRC in general is a service rendered without cost to the users and its use is a privilege rather than a right, it’s my opinion that it’s existence is due to the users rather than the IRCops. What would be the point otherwise? What strikes me most about the admin's reply to me is “Androsyn did not abuse any of his ircop privs”. What’s bothersome there is that the weight of abuse has been focused on whether or not Androsyn has “abused his IRCop privileges” rather then that he’s abused “Efnet users”? Should the concern regarding Androsyn’s actions be about his privileges or rather for the users? All the members of #goth were without doubt abused as Efnet users, regardless of the status of Androsyn’s status as an IRCop and the privileges gifted to him as such. Some serious rethinking should be done regarding such a policy, as it’s philosophically inadequate to sustain any sense of order.

The issue becomes further complicated by the fact of the status of #goth now. All of the ops that have ran #goth for many years, as well as the regular users of the channel have simply moved to another channel in an attempt to continue on and forget the issue with Androsyn. However, it’s clear that Androsyn isn’t content with just having control of a now mostly empty #goth, he’s taken actions against previous users and ops that can only be viewed as abuse:

1: The persistent K-lines and D-lines placed on the addresses of users.
2: Random /kills on users
3: The juping of our new channel on irc.avalonworks.ca resulting in k-line
of users simply for joining the new channel.

Any of these conditions are very difficult to trace back to Androsyn or the administration at irc.avalonworks.ca, due to the lack of detail in log files when these conditions present themselves to the user’s client.

Personally, I’ve attempted to move on from this drama and simply exist in our new channel, however these constant D-lines and K-lines have led me to the conclusion that our just moving on is not good enough for Androsyn or irc.avalonworks.ca. This is unfortunate as there is little that any of us can do about any of it when Androsyn and the avalonworks.ca admins are unconcerned and unwilling to do anything about the issue other than continue to support and allow Androsyn’s abusive actions to continue and even widen.
AndroSyn
ircd-ratbox coder
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Waaa

Postby AndroSyn » Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:54 pm

Nobody cares if your vagina bleeds on the internet.
AirMonk
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: Atlanta GA

Postby AirMonk » Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:27 pm

Apparently you do if you bothered to post.....and such a brilliant post it was.
sadistic
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:01 am
Location: ubiquitous

Re: Waaa

Postby sadistic » Fri Dec 24, 2004 1:14 am

AndroSyn wrote:Nobody cares if your vagina bleeds on the internet.
Actually the lengths you have goen to are down right disturbing.
I'm by no means out to wage a war against an ircop, nor a chan war, nor any type of abusive pointless puerile act. But how far you have gone to cause discomfort to users is ridiculous. Let's refrain from flaming this msg board and belittling each other. Perhaps we might even think about ways to resolve this situation that would benefit all parties.

How's about androsyn stay out of #soultrader, remove the jupe, and cease k-lining/killing former #goth ops? You can keep #goth to prove your the bigger man, or whatnot. I do not care.
NiamhEfNet
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA

Re: Waaa

Postby NiamhEfNet » Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:11 am

AndroSyn wrote:Nobody cares if your vagina bleeds on the internet.

Clever.
User avatar
munky
Site Admin
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Postby munky » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:05 pm

this thread is going downhill fast. locked.
In God we trust,
Everyone else must have an X.509 certificate.

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